#46582: "ELO adaptation to the number of players is screwed badly"
מה קרה? אנא בחר מהרשימה מטה
מה קרה? אנא בחר מהרשימה מטה
בבקשה בדוק אם יש כבר דוח על אותו נושא
אם כן, הצביעו בעד הדיווח הזה, דיווחים עם הכי הרבה קולות נחקרים ראשונים
# | Status | Votes | Game | Type | Title | Last update |
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תיאור מפורט
• אנא העתק/הדבק את הודעת השגיאה המופיעה במסך, אם יש כזו.
n/a• בבקשה הסבר מה רצית לעשות,מה עשית ומה קרה
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• מה הדפדפן שלך?
Google Chrome v91
• בבקשה העתק והדבק את הטקסט המוצג באנגלית במקום בשפה שלך. אם יש לך צילום מסך (מומלץ) אתה יכול להשתמש ב Imgur.com כדי להעלות אותו להדביק קישור לכאן.
n/a• האם טקסט זה זמין במערכת התרגום? אם כן, האם היא תורגמה במשך יותר מ -24 שעות?
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• מה הדפדפן שלך?
Google Chrome v91
• אנא הסבר את ההצעה שלך במדויק ותמצית כדי שיהיה קל ככל האפשר להבין למה אתה מתכוון.
n/a• מה הדפדפן שלך?
Google Chrome v91
• מה הוצג על המסך כאשר נחסמה (מסך ריק? חלק ממשק המשחק? הודעת שגיאה?)
n/a• מה הדפדפן שלך?
Google Chrome v91
• איזה חלק של הכללים לא היה מכובד על ידי עיבוד BGA
n/a• האם אפשר לראות את הפרת החוק בשידור החוזר? אם כן, באיזה מספר מהלך?
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• מה הדפדפן שלך?
Google Chrome v91
• מה היה המהלך במשחק שרצית לבצע?
n/a• מה ניסית לעשות שגרם לפעולה הזו
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• מה קרה כאשר את/ה מנסה לעשות את זה (הודעת שגיאה, הודעת פס סטטוס משחק, ...)?
• מה הדפדפן שלך?
Google Chrome v91
• באיזה שלב במשחק הבעייה קרתה (מה היו ההוראות הנכונות)
n/a• מה קרה כאשר את/ה מנסה לבצע פעולת משחק (הודעת שגיאה, הודעת פס סטטוס משחק, ...)?
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• מה הדפדפן שלך?
Google Chrome v91
• אנא תאר/י את הנושא המוצג. אם יש לך צילום מסך (מומלץ) אתה יכול להשתמש ב Imgur.com כדי להעלות אותו להדביק קישור לכאן.
n/a• מה הדפדפן שלך?
Google Chrome v91
• בבקשה העתק והדבק את הטקסט המוצג באנגלית במקום בשפה שלך. אם יש לך צילום מסך (מומלץ) אתה יכול להשתמש ב Imgur.com כדי להעלות אותו להדביק קישור לכאן.
n/a• האם טקסט זה זמין במערכת התרגום? אם כן, האם היא תורגמה במשך יותר מ -24 שעות?
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• מה הדפדפן שלך?
Google Chrome v91
• אנא הסבר את ההצעה שלך במדויק ותמצית כדי שיהיה קל ככל האפשר להבין למה אתה מתכוון.
n/a• מה הדפדפן שלך?
Google Chrome v91
היסטוריית דיווחים
הוסף לדוח הזה
- מספר שולחן/מהלך אחר
- האם לחיצה על F5 פתר את הבעיה?
- האם הבעיה הופיע כמה פעמים? בכל פעם? באופן אקראי?
- אם יש לך צילום מסך (מומלץ) אתה יכול להשתמש ב Imgur.com כדי להעלות אותו להדביק קישור לכאן.